What If Coronation Street Was Archie Street? Part Six

Well, chuck, we've reached the final part of our little series comparing Coronation Street to its rough-template-real-life-counterpart Archie Street, which once stood in the Ordsall district of Salford. And as we stand outside Maurice Jones's posh 1989 Coronation Street development, what was on that side of Archie Street? More terraced houses, of a slightly different design, and a brick wall is the answer.

When Archie Street faced the bulldozers in 1971, Granada Television issued a press statement entitled THE BULLDOZERS FOR ENA? and Bernard Youens and Jean Alexander, our wonderful Stan and Hilda Ogden, visited the derelict street for a photo session.

The Ogdens survey the non-template side of Archie Street in 1971. Note the bay windows there had brick surrounds.

For years, it was put about - and Granada participated in this - that Archie Street had been replaced by high rise blocks, but it hadn't - simply by modern housing. St Clement's Church remained as a convenient orientation point when tracing the site. Just to confuse those not-in-the-know there's now another Archie Street in the district!

Coronation Street differs from Archie Street in that it is not real, and when I said a little while back that we should embrace some of the oddities thrown up by its architecture and changing environs over the years, I meant it. Since the Street was born almost sixty years ago, TV production has altered a very great deal. Hurriedly assembling sets back in the day led to occasional brow-creasers like Emily Bishop's back door leading into Albert Tatlock's yard on at least one occasion in the 1970s, and the cramped nature of the studio meant the frontages had to be tiny in the 1960s. So, Albert had to put up with having the Rovers loos in his house.

When the Street moved outside, a lack of chimneys and glimpses of interior scaffolding and interior grey sky were inevitable. But think about the improvement from the old studio set! It didn't solve Albert's problem though.

The old days - far too small, no chimneys and the Rovers loos are in Albert's house. "Funny old boozer this, in't it, Mrs Walker?!"

In 1982, we got to see Rosamund Street in a different light - no church opposite the street corner, as in the studio days, or high wall with gates in it - but the building which became the Graffiti Club. Once again, highly odd when viewed as reality but a major leap forward for the Street - as were chimney pots and a properly covered terraced.

Not to mention the size upgrade. Real size? No, as Jean Alexander said at the time, 'more real size.'

The 1980s.

And, in 1989, came the modern development on the community centre and factory site - bringing us the likes of '80s kids Des and Steph Barnes in February 1990.

The only thing I've ever really disliked is the strange Rosamund Street arch, which appeared at the turn of the 21st century. I've never seen anything like it in real life, but I can  imagine the production team were eager to block out the view of the Granada Studios - and having the Rosamund Street view beyond the arch was inspired.

With the latest set, we have another size upgrade and Rosamund Street is no longer a straight road. The Street's production team in 1960, unaware that the show would run and run, set an impossible task for the future: how on earth could you feature a busy main road? So, Rosamund Street became less busy, and with the opportunity to slot in more shops and a more realistic look for the latest set, I can imagine the temptation to alter the course of the road was irresistible.

Number 1 and number 3 Coronation Street. There's now room for hanging baskets outside - and the width of the halls can realistically accommodate stairs and the living room doorway inside.

I think the new Street looks a little too big in some ways - the houses more cottagey than Victorian/Edwardian urban terrace. The bay windows look positively palatial, but they make more logical sense. Again, in real life, I've never seen a street with neighbouring bay windows bolted together quite the way they are in Coronation Street. But that was born of necessity from lack of studio space back in 1960 and now the windows are at least large enough to have a properly sized room behind them.

The back of the Rovers could have been sorted out a bit better, and would there really be so many businesses in Victoria Street? I always imagined the Street nestling amongst other grotty, grey back streets off a main road, not in a funky area like that.

Two upstairs windows for the Rovers frontage instead of one makes perfect sense as the pub exterior was never big enough to accommodate the interior. The back, however, is rubbish.

But the pressure continues to produce more episodes and the new set reflects that. More stories and different settings are needed. The programme eats them up at a rapid rate.

It's all a far cry from the little girls playing outside the Corner Shop on the old studio exterior set at the start of episode one, and the days when the inspiration for the architecture became known as Coronarchie Street.

Roll end credits...

1986: "Our Hilda" - An English Rose!

Hilda Ogden - an English rose?! Yep, she became one in 1986, when Bee's, the Chester firm of seedsmen, launched a new rose named in honour of our Coronation Street heroine!

The raspberry pink rose appeared at the Chelsea Flower Show that year, and actress Jean Alexander was invited down for the preview.

In her 1989 autobiography The Other Side Of The Street, Jean wrote:

I had never been to the show before and I was entranced by the variety and beauty of the exhibits, but for me 'Our Hilda' shone the brightest.

And, of course, Jean posed for a photograph of the rose in Hilda's living room, complete with flying ducks and a photograph of the late Bernard Youens, in character as Stan Ogden.

Recommended Reading - Jean Alexander - The Other Side Of The Street

Hilda Ogden finally took down her famous flying ducks from the "muriel" at No 13 as actress Jean Alexander left Coronation Street in late 1987.

Miss Alexander told us that her career was not over - a fact she quickly proved - moving on to a film appearance and the BBC comedy series Last Of The Summer Wine, amongst other things. In 1989, she looked back on her life so far in her autobiography, The Other Side Of The Street, and this book is one I can heartily recommend.

There's no thrills, no starry nonsense here, as Miss Alexander takes readers on a steady canter through her life, beginning with her Liverpool childhood and early work in a public library, on to rep and several early TV appearances, and then to Coronation Street.

From a rat in the theatre dressing room to a highly talkative landlady, an (almost) explosive water heater to a haunted flat, Jean took life in her stride - and this is a lovely read. Perfect to end the day on.

The book also contains insights into the real-life characters of some of the cast of Coronation Street from the 1960s to the 1980s.

Copies of the book sometimes turn up on eBay and I say: "Give yourself a treat, luvvie - grab one!"

Hilda Ogden And Eddie Yeats - Painful Carols In 1981...

Much-loved Hilda Ogden (Jean Alexander) had TV reviewer Hilary Kingsley pleading for mercy in December 1981:

I know Jean Alexander's Hilda Ogden is one of TV's great institutions. But please, Coronation Street scriptwriters, don't let her sing. My eardrums are only just recovering from her carol duet with Eddie on Wednesday.

Personally, we thought it were lovely, chuck.

1982: "At Last We Had A Real Street"

Daily Mirror, 22/2/1982 - Hilda (Jean Alexander) takes a look at Number 13 as work on the new exterior set progresses.

The 5th of May 1982 saw the Queen visiting the new exterior set of Coronation Street with the Duke of Edinburgh. Work had begun on the set in the November of 1981, and the new set was an impressive sight to behold - making the old exterior facade look positively ridiculous.

An invitation to the 1982 Royal tour of the new Coronation Street exterior set for Peter Tonkinson, story-line writer.

Here's how HV Kershaw, the man who oversaw the building of the old exterior brick facade in late 1969, wrote about the 1982 innovation in his book, The Street Where I Live (1985 edition):

Construction took 49,000 old bricks and 6,500 roof slates, reclaimed from demolition sites in South East Lancashire. The viaduct needed a further 29,000 bricks and to provide an authentic finish special black mortar had been used, mixed to the original Victorian specification using an ash ingredient. TV aerials and chimneys sprouted where none had been before. At last we had a real street.

The Queen and Prince Phillip stroll the famous cobbles.

Remembering Margot Bryant

Margot Bryant, Minnie Caldwell in Coronation Street from 1960 to 1976, was a great real life character - and the complete opposite to Minnie, great fictional character though she was!

Here we feature some quotes about the lady from people who knew her, and a few from Margot herself.

Whilst Minnie stayed in her home town of Weatherfield and, over the years, looked after her mother, Jed Stone and Bobby the cat, Margot had a great spirit of adventure. And whilst Minnie was gentle and whimsical, if something displeased Margot, she didn't mince her words...

"I'm tough. Very tough." - Margot Bryant

"We flew from one place to another in old Dakotas made of cardboard. Often they'd say, 'This plane is unsafe, you'd better change to another plane.' It was great fun and terribly exciting."

- Margot on her experiences in World War II as an entertainer with ENSA. She travelled through Europe and the Middle and Far East.

"Of course cats understand me. Cats are super-intelligent animals. It depends on how you treat them. If you never spoke to a child, it would never learn anything. It's just the same with cats. If you speak to them all their lives, then they understand you."

- Margot Bryant. The one thing Margot had in common with Minnie was a tremendous love of cats.

"Margot was barmy about cats. A friend of mine once telephoned me and said, 'Now I've seen everything. I've seen your Minnie Caldwell, on holiday, in Venice, feeding stray cats from a huge pile of tins, wearing a mink coat.' So I said to Margot, 'I didn't know you had a mink coat,' and she said: 'Oh, that's nothing - I've got a tiger's whisker, and what's more I went in the cage to get it!' So, anything that had four legs and whiskers... Well, obviously, we couldn't give her a tiger, so we gave her Bobby."

- Tony Warren speaking on the 1988 tribute show Minnie Caldwell Remembered.

Margot has had a strange love for animals ever since she was a child and first heard the Bible story of Daniel in the lions' den. At Belle Vue Zoo, Manchester, she went to have some publicity pictures taken with a lion cub - and ended up the best of friends with a fierce Bengal tiger which flopped down beside her like a great fur coat at her feet when she stroked him tenderly on the neck and tickled him behind an ear. Nobody else but the zoo-keeper would go near the beast.

- Ken Irwin, author, The Real Coronation Street, 1970.

Her appearance can be deceptive. Behind that gentle, old lady look there lurks a dragon of a woman. And she chuckles quietly to herself at the thought of the deception she often portrays in the meek-and-mild role which has guaranteed her a comfortable retirement in her old age.

- Ken Irwin, The Real Coronation Street.

... and so Minnie Caldwell became the character who earned so much sympathy from the viewers. What they did not know was Margot's ability to forget key words in her dialogue and substitute others that frequently made no sense. "My father had a dog once," she said. "It was a ferret..."

- Jean Alexander (Hilda Ogden) in her 1989 autobiography, The Other Side Of The Street.

I had only been in the studio a couple of days when, opening the door of the Green Room, I heard a little Minnie Caldwell voice saying, "And the car was so filthy I wrote F**** on the bonnet with my finger!" I could hardly believe my ears. "Did Margot Bryant say that?" I asked somebody. "You haven't heard the half of it!" I was told.

- Jean Alexander, The Other Side Of The Street.

She [Margot Bryant] had a way with words which was at times distinctly unladylike, and what's more she couldn't have cared less who happened to be listening.

- Bill Podmore in his 1990 autobiography, Coronation Street - The Inside Story.

"I liked her. We had our rows. Oh, we had our ups and downs. I once told her she was ruder than Ena Sharples was ever meant to be - because she'd been rude to some people that had come to watch an episode. They said, 'Hello, Minnie, my flower," and she said, 'How dare you call me Minnie, you oaf!' I was livid when I got to the dressing room. I said: 'Margot Bryant, you're ruder than Ena Sharples was ever meant to be!' And, with that, I swept off!"

- Lynne Carol (Martha Longhurst) appearing on the 1988 tribute show Minnie Caldwell Remembered.

"And Minnie was meek and docile - rather sweet, easily squashed... Margot was very sophisticated, rather arrogant, and could be very provocative..."

- Doris Speed (Annie Walker), Minnie Caldwell Remembered.

"What a pity it isn't a kitten!" - Margot Bryant to Eileen Derbyshire (Emily Nugent/Bishop) when the actress brought her new baby into the studio.

- The Other Side Of The Street, Jean Alexander.

"Certainly, she did project a sort of female WC Fields attitude, you know: I do like children, yes - on toast. I was unbelievably touched when she arrived one day and almost in a sort of shamefaced way, said: 'I've made you this.' And she had made me this little shirt for him, you see, which nobody would ever believe... I've treasured it now for twenty years and shall always treasure it because it was one of the loveliest presents I was ever given. But nobody would believe that, because never in a million years would Margot make a shirt for a CHILD, you know, a CAT yes, but..."

- Eileen Derbyshire remembers an unexpected gift, Minnie Caldwell Remembered, 1988.

There was a time when she [Margot Bryant] was having a few problems with her bank manager and he took her to lunch to sort it out. They went to a restaurant in Brighton, near where she lived, and a funeral party happened to be eating at the other side of the room. The chief mourner came solemnly over for the inevitable autograph and said, "I've just buried my wife." Margot looked at him very firmly and said, "Did anybody see you do it?"

- Bill Waddington (Percy Sugden) in his autobiography, The Importance Of Being Percy (1992).

And finally, for Minnie Caldwell Remembered in 1988, Doris Speed recalled how Margot, at that point not playing Minnie as a permanent Street character, visited her dressing room in 1960:

"She came to my dressing room, and she said, 'I've come to say goodbye.' And she wasn't looking one little bit arrogant, she was looking very sad. So I said: 'Oh, Margot, what nonsense, you'll be coming again - you were very, very good - which she was. And she said: 'Was I really?' And she welled over with tears. So there was a little bit of Minnie there, wasn't there?"

1982: A Shock For Hilda Ogden

I recall working as a care assistant in a Social Services home for the elderly in the 1980s, and being told by one female resident: "You young people think you invented sex - well, you didn't!" She delighted in telling staff about her wartime exploits. Or perhaps I mean sexploits!

Nevertheless, although lots went on, society only slowly relaxed its view that sex outside marriage was wrong - until the arrival of the 1960s, when, with National Service gone and the Pill available, things altered dramatically. Call it Peace. Call it Love. What it often boiled down to was promiscuous nookie, with no "hang ups" about it.

Not everybody was glad of this loosening of morals, and even in the 1980s, the likes of Hilda Ogden could be found being shocked by the likes of Mike Baldwin.

Daily Star, July 28, 1982:

Nosey gossip Hilda Ogden gets a shock when she arrives to clean Mike Baldwin's flat in CORONATION STREET (ITV, 7.30).

The breakfast table is set for two - and Maggie Dunlop (Jill Kerman) appears from the bedroom wearing a dressing gown.

"Just to put you in the picture, she's moved in," says Mike (Johnny Briggs) to an astonished Hilda (Jean Alexander).

Flaunting it in the 1980s - Mike and Maggie traumatised a boggle-eyed Hilda. Maggie was the owner of Maggie's Flowers, the shop where Eddie Yeats' (Geoffrey Hughes) CB romance partner Marion Willis (Veronica Doran) worked.

Awful '82 - Hilda would undoubtedly have been shocked by Erika Roe "streaking" at Twickenham. Perhaps deelyboppers (below) were more her scene?

Christmas Past And Christmas Now

December 1987 - a fond farewell to Hilda Ogden!

An e-mail from Sara:

I'm very glad to have found your blog, reflecting as it does on the good old days of the Street.

I was sickened to discover that Jed Stone is to be murdered - strangled - by Tony Gordon, serial killer, in this year's Christmas Eve edition. Do the show's producers imagine that we, the audience, are baying for blood? Doesn't this type of thing de-sensitise people to real life acts of violence? Fair enough, the Street has always featured violent happenings and endings for certain characters, but nowadays it's relentless. What sort of people are we, the audience? And for this to happen at Christmas too - a holy time!

And Jed Stone is one of the Street's 1960's legends.

On a different subject, will you be including more material on Hilda Ogden, played by the wonderful Jean Alexander, from 1964-1987?

All the best for Christmas and the New Year x

I reply:

Hi, Sara! Christmas greetings to you too!

I'm not sure of the background to the Jed Stone murder story line - perhaps Kenneth Cope simply wanted a short stay in the show? I too feel that it's a shame the character is to be murdered.

Soaps have changed, things move on. We may feel certain changes are not for the best, but if we don't like developments we can always switch off.

You're very welcome here - we're stuck in a time warp where it's never later than 1989!

Rest assured - there will be lots more about Hilda Ogden in the weeks to come.

UPDATE 25/12/2008

According to the synopsis of today's episode on Corrieblog, Sara, Jed may not be dead after all - which is a very pleasing thought!